Home Success Story & Hard Truth Prostate Cancer Prostate Cancer: Conversation with Stephen Taylor in Bangkok

Stephen Taylor is a well-read, 62-year-old engineer who lives in Bangkok, Thailand with his Thai wife and a thirteen-year-old daughter. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer in June 2007.  

Steve declined surgery and radiotherapy and opted for Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockage Therapy (ITAB) instead. The ITAB therapy had achieved its intended purpose when his PSA declined from 19.6 to 0.01. The treatment provided a reassurance. But it came with the cost of numerous side effects. Unfortunately, this security did not last long. After the hard knock hormonal treatment, his PSA started to rise again.  Steve sought our help and took seriously to the CA Care Therapy.

Stephen Taylor is a well-read, 62-year-old engineer who lives in Bangkok, Thailand with his Thai wife and a thirteen-year-old daughter. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer in June 2007 (for more read what Steve wrote: Prostate Cancer – My Story.

http://cacare.com/index.php?option=com_easyfaq&task=view&id=323&Itemid=39)

Steve declined surgery and radiotherapy and opted for Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockage Therapy (ITAB) instead. The ITAB therapy had achieved its intended purpose when his PSA declined from 19.6 to 0.01. The treatment provided a reassurance. But it came with the cost of numerous side effects. Unfortunately, this security did not last long. After the hard knock hormonal treatment, his PSA started to rise again.  Steve sought our help and took seriously to the CA Care Therapy.

I have the privilege to meet Steve in Bangkok on 6 August 2009. The following are excerpts of our conversation:

Video 1: My Experience with the Budwig Diet

After trying to educate myself about the disease, I declined the usual prostatectomy or radiation options. I am not convinced they work. Since June 2007, I have tried to follow the Budwig Protocol (flax seed oil with cottage cheese + diet changes, sun baths, exercise) … I note your diet recommendations are somewhat similar to Budwig’s, except you do not like using dairy products while Budwig recommends the flax seed oil + cottage cheese mixture.

Video 2: No To Surgery And Radiotherapy

I was diagnosed in Bangkok … and of course it was by an urologist. The first thing the urologist said was (he’s a surgeon): Surgery. I was asked to do surgery. Either robotic, or the one without da Vinci thing. So, I said: Well, I’ll think about that. Have you got anything else? So, he referred me to another doctor who is a radiation oncologist. That’s in a cancer centre in one of the very big hospital in Bangkok. He suggested high dose brachytherapy. The first thing I asked him: What is the survival on that plan? He claimed that the protocol he used was also the one used in a university in Germany. The survival over eight years was 93 percent. In other words, seven percent died. But then I said: What about the failure with the PSA going up? What percentage of those patients has their PSA going up? Apparently I believe it was something like 23 percent. So you can see that’s about a quarter of them, 25 percent of patients in eight years – basically the treatment failed. And seven percent, they died. So, that was then when I was on the internet. I found out about the doctor in Singapore and the hormone therapy. Survival – one percent of his patients died in eight years. It seems better. So, I went for that.

Video 3: Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy (ITAB)

I decided on Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy (ITAB). This is a combination of Zoladex + Caodex + Avodart all received at the same time.

Cost of Hormonal Therapy

When I went to Singapore to talk about the hormones, I didn’t realize then, how much the hormones cost. The hormones are also very, very expensive. I didn’t realize . . .The Zoladex injection, now in Bangkok –  in the same hospital that I go to, costs Baht 39,000 for a three-monthly injection. That is about US$1,200 for three months. But that’s only the Zoladex. The Casodex is very expensive. It costs Bahts 800 for one tablet a day. That’s about US$25 per day. I said to the doctor in Singapore: Well, I checked on the internet, I can find some generic Casodex from India. Have you any objection if I use that? He said: No objection. So, for that year, for most of the time, I got the generic Casodex which is a lot cheaper from an online Indian pharmacy. The drug seemed to work okay. The other drug was called Avodart. I forgot how much it cost now, but again, I found the generic from the same Indian pharmacy. I took the generic Avodart as well. All told, the cost over a year would be quite substantial, plus of course the doctor’s consultation. It is not cheap. Plus he wants me to travel to Singapore every three months.

Video 4: After Hard Knock With Hormones 

I only took the drugs as intermittent therapy. Intermittent means they only do it for a year. Then you stop and you just continue with the Avodart or an alternative drug which I took as well, called Proscar. You just continue with that and monitor the PSA. Normally with all his patients, most of them, the PSA remained stable for eight years. Nobody needed another dose of hormones.

I was off hormone therapy for about a year. The PSA started rising, from 0.01 it went to 0.22. I thought it was still low, but the percentage increase is very high of course. So, from 0.22 (it’s either one month or six weeks, it is quite a short time frame) – it went to 1.96. And then in the next six weeks, it went from 1.96 to 4.1. I plotted a graph – you can see it is a parabolic exponential curve going up. I was getting worried. Obviously what I had hoped would have happened was the PSA would stay low for eight years after the one-year hormone. It didn’t happen. It appears to be going up faster from the average of the 100 patients on the (doctor’s) graph.

I’m an engineer by training. So, I could plot my own graph on a piece of paper and I could see this is an exponential curve going up. If I don’t do anything – the PSA, in another six weeks, would double again from 4.1. It would have gone to 8.

I asked my doctor in Singapore: What do we do now? Do you want me to go back on the hormones or what? And he said: Well, if the PSA is going up too quickly and if you don’t have a low PSA for two years, after you stop the hormone treatment – for two years –  then maybe the hormones is not the right way to go anyway. Then he would recommend radiation.

The doctor in Singapore recommended a certain type of radiation he favours himself, called Tomotherapy. It is a name of a particular radiation machine – something like IMRT radiation. Supposedly this is a bit better, more accurate supposedly. They don’t have this machine in Thailand. They have it in Hong Kong. So, I asked Hong Kong how much they wanted for this tomo-treatment in Hong Kong. It’s US$50,000.

Video 5: I Found CA Care

How did we find Dr. Chris? I think it’s because in looking around the web, I think it was in one of these chat rooms . . . I came across somebody (I am not sure about this) … someone who lives in Thailand. He was staying at a health resort up in North of Thailand. I don’t think he mentioned your name. He just mentioned Cancer Care. So that was when I looked on your website and then I contacted you by email. We chatted back and forth. You suggested I looked on YouTube – some of your videos are there. Meanwhile I also read a couple of books that changed my view on diet as well. The two books were: The China Study by T. Collin Campbell, and another book by Professor Jane Plant in the UK called Prostate Cancer. Both of those recommended a strict vegetarian diet and particularly no milk. And as I had mentioned, I had been taking the Budwig thing which is cottage cheese. What is cottage cheese? It comes from milk. Maybe it’s entirely the wrong thing I was taking. And I was taking quite a lot of this cottage cheese.

I was drinking milk as well. Not a lot, but I was taking some milk. Also, I wasn’t so strict with the diet. So, when I saw your website and when I downloaded your book, Food & Cancer and another book of yours, these seem to tie in with what Collin Campbell and Professor Jane Plant said. In addition, of course you have the herbs. I figured they don’t have so much prostate cancer in China. Maybe the Chinese know something that the western doctors don’t. So, I’ll give it a go. Give your herbs and really tidy up on the diet –  really strict on the diet, no fooling around this time because maybe I don’t have another chance.

My Initial Reaction To CA Care Therapy And Meeting Dr. Chris

Well, my honest feeling. Because I am an engineer, and I did physics in the university, and physics is based on evidence. You have theories in physics. You can have a theory about anything. Then you have to demonstrate whether this theory works or it doesn’t work. So I approach your treatment with an entirely open mind. It either works, or it doesn’t work. So, I do it according to your instructions. Taking the herbs, I must keep to the very strict diet otherwise you’d say, Oh it hasn’t worked because you haven’t kept to the diet. I did everything like you say, and if it works – Well done Dr. Chris! I congratulate you. And therefore the theory works.

Let’s say this. If I was doing something over the internet, and getting some sort of Chinese herbs from China or something, I would be rather doubtful because they might be trying to sell me something, a pig in the poke as they say it in English. But having met you, and it’s not just because you are sitting here Dr. Chris, I found you a very genuine and fair person to talk to. After talking to you over the net, I have confidence in you. I would have more confidence than if I had been doing it with some guys, buying stuff over the internet. But you have given me some confidence and encouragement with your stories that you told me.  By meeting you, I have more confidence in you, particularly after your last visit to Bangkok, when I came to see you. I haven’t had my PSA checked then. My PSA was going up in a parabolic curve. I came here to see you, and I asked you what you think and you said you think my PSA would go down. I said: How can you be so confident, Dr. Chris? And you said: Well you would be my first failure! And you said: But of course life is uncertain. I like that. Life is uncertain. I’d probably get knocked over by a bus tomorrow. You seemed to be amazingly confident. I went back –  I don’t think I told you this –  I told some of my friends, I’ve spoken to Dr. Chris and he’s confident about it. We’ll just have to see. It’s given me some encouragement to meet Dr. Chris and it really has.

I’m very glad we’d met. As I said, I find you a very genuine person. I believe, I think you believe in what you are doing. Of course it comes back to me being a physicist. You may believe in what you are doing, so maybe Dr. Budwig in Germany also believed in what she was doing. So we have to see whether it really does work. But certainly, I’m so glad to meet you and it gives me more confident. 

Video 6: Extremely Pleased: I Am Delighted

After I came to see you, I think it was the next day or the day after, I went to have the PSA test. It was the usual doctor, the same hospital, the same everything. The lab is the same. And my PSA has gone down from 4.1 to 3.85. If it was according to the graph, I would rightly expect it to go to 8.0.

It went slightly down. I had it checked in the hospital – first to draw the blood, then I had to wait two hours for them to do the lab work and then the results. Then I went to see the doctor – the radiation oncologist. I walked in the door. The first thing he said before I even sat down: Your PSA has gone down. Surprise!  He said: What have you been doing?

Well, I have been taking Chinese herbs plus a very strict diet. He said: Maybe the herbs have got some hormones to suppress the PSA. I said:  Doctor, I don’t know. But I don’t think so. They look like Chinese herbs that you can get at the Chinese Pharmacy if you know how to do it. So he said: Okay. We talked about other things and he said: Well I’ll see you in six weeks.

How did you feel when you were told the PSA went down?

Why of course, extremely pleased, very pleased. I’m delighted. I can’t say anything more. I would continue with what I’m doing with the herbs, with your help, and with your assistance. Keep to the strict diet – wait another six weeks. The only thing I would say is, one test result –  they say it in English, one swallow doesn’t make a summer. So we have to see. Yes! I’m very pleased.

Chris: If we were to maintain the PSA to anything below 4, would that be something that you would be happy with?

Steve: That would be perfectly acceptable, perfectly acceptable.

C: You would not want to think of going for surgery?

S: (Shaking head) Absolutely not, absolutely not. The doctor in Singapore said to me – I asked him, at what PSA level do I have to do something? He said a PSA of 10 plus or minus two. So that means 8 to 12. I found out on the web, that other people who’s done this hormone thing . . . other doctors have said well if the PSA reached half the level it was to begin with, then it’s time to think about doing something else. My PSA was 19.6,   say 20. So that again is 10. So, ideally as long as we can keep it below 8, it would be okay, but preferably, of course the lower the better. If it’s below 4, I would be very happy.

C: I would not be happy if it’s more that 6.If you are hovering around 6 and below. Of course 4 and below, I think would be superb. We are not aiming at PSA zero.

S: Yea, yea. I don’t expect that.

C: I’m optimistic! Maybe we can achieve that level. That makes everybody happy. We play by ear. Let’s see what happens. The next goal will be – if it still moves down, then I think we are doing it right. If it goes down, there is no reason why it should go up again. The only reason is you have done something wrong. That is the only thing.

S: Yes, okay. But I would be very straight with you if I do something wrong.

C: My experience has shown that if a person’s reading is going down, generally, it will not go up. Not only PSA – the CEA and other things. If it does … if I were to dig further, then you’ll see the things that had happened . . .

S: Well, we’ll know at the end of this month, it’ll be another six weeks. I’m already two weeks through to the next six weeks. Basically at the end of this month, I’ll go and get another PSA checked and of course I’ll tell you.

On 27 August 2009, Steve wrote: Dear Chris,

Latest PSA result (27 August 2009) is 3.96 i.e. slightly up on last time (from 3.85) but still below the 4.10.

C: This time around, what did your doctor say after getting this result?

S: On the last visit to the same oncologist he said, without any justification at all: I’m sure it’s due to the strict diet and nothing to do with the herbs  and tried to tell me (like talking to a complete idiot – maybe I am, as a Chartered Engineer with a Physics degree!!) about how unscientific the herbal remedy was and how the medical profession requires clinical trials. I told him that he must know very well that the drug companies will not finance any trials if there is no money to be made from it. Just look at the exorbitant cost of the hormone medications.

(Quoted from Steve’s blog: http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/StephenT.htm)

C: How do you feel with this result?

S: Extremely pleased and thankful that I contacted you and for your kind help.

Update #1 – 29 November 2009:  This is what Steve wrote:

As I mentioned in My Story I decided to stop taking Proscar shortly after my last PSA test on 27 August 2009 (PSA = 3.96). I did this for several reasons as follows, knowing that Proscar is part of the maintenance protocol for the Leibowitz–Tucker Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy (hormone therapy):

·         I remain concerned about the long term effects of any medication and the possible unintended consequences of taking medications over a prolonged period. This was the reason I changed from using Avodart to Proscar, which I felt had a longer track record.

·         I wanted to see if the strict diet plus CA Care herbs would stabilize the PSA at around 4.0.

·         Since Proscar is known to suppress PSA values by up to 50%, it might be useful to obtain a new base line PSA value without any medication.

·         Proscar has definite effects on sexual function.

On 26 November 2009, three months after the last test, I had another PSA test and the result was 5.88. The most recent results are shown on the following graph.

My take on the result is that although the PSA has gone up, the increase might be attributable to stopping the Proscar. Dr Chris has reminded me that during a previous conversation we talked about rising PSA he said that if I was hovering around a PSA of 6.0 or thereabouts, that would be acceptable, and we are not aiming for a PSA of zero. I agree with this assessment. So I have decided to do another PSA test in three months time, while maintaining the strict vegan diet plus CA Care herbs.

A couple of weeks after I stopped taking the Proscar I noticed that my night time urination had increased from a fairly constant two times a night to three or four. Naturally I was concerned that this might be due to the prostate cancer growing or an increase in BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia – or enlarged prostate) symptoms. However, after another week or so the frequency of bathroom visits reduced again to two times a night.

Also, I found that my slight ED (erectile dysfunction) issues improved without the Proscar, and the amount of ejaculate increased from either none or very little to what seems a normal amount. So at the present time I can say that I haven’t felt better in years (maybe the lack of alcohol contributes to that!).

Yesterday I walked up eight flights of stairs in a condominium building with someone who could be my daughter and I was fine but the other person asked me to stop for a while because she was breathless. My blood pressure is 123 / 74 and my weight has reduced to a more or less ideal 70.4 kg. If only I can keep the PSA under control!

I do not take any medication at all, and the only supplements I take are 1,200 IU of Vitamin D3 a day and a weekly Vitamin B-12 skin patch (since vegan diets are known to be deficient in Vitamin B-12). Apparently I do not have any lingering side effects of the 1-year intermittent hormone therapy which I completed (except the Proscar) in July 2008.

The only other issue I can think of is that back in May 2009 I started wetting the bed at night, and this happened two times. I decided to buy some adult diapers to wear at night. After a couple of weeks of taking these precautions I found that I had no further bed-wetting episodes so stopped using the diapers, and remain dry to this day.

My thanks to Dr. Chris Teo for his continuing support and encouragement in this battle with prostate cancer.

Acknowledgement: Thanks Steve for sharing with us and your permission to use these video clips without having to cover your face! And also for drawing the graphs.